Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page"

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(At the article level sections could be:)
(Headlining Westerly Pageant: new section)
Line 34: Line 34:
 
Also suggest we add a template for  a picture gallery so we can collect and display more pictures about each class.
 
Also suggest we add a template for  a picture gallery so we can collect and display more pictures about each class.
 
[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 14:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 
[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 14:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Headlining Westerly Pageant ==
 +
 +
So here we were with the headlining hanging round our ears on my Westerly Pageant.
 +
 +
This is normal on a boat I’m told especially a fifty year old Westerly that has never been refurbished.
 +
 +
Headlining in the front cabin had already been removed and revealed the ceiling to be a dirty brown mess of old glue and the lumps and bumps of the fibreglass woven inner skin and various bolts holding on chain plates and the like.
 +
 +
Knowing what was coming when the saloon cabin lining was removed and not wanting to spend hours scraping and sanding old glue (unless the boat could be turned upside down so I worked on what would effectively be the floor) the thinking cap went on.
 +
 +
After removal of the old lining which shed amazing amounts of black powdery ex-foam that had lost adhesion to the vinyl lining causing the ceiling covering to give way. (Mask alert!) The shape of the cabin roof turned out to be not too complicated. True there are two areas where compound curves make life difficult but over all I could see that with a suitably bendy wood, the interior could be transformed into a cosy space which could include downlighters and space for hidden wiring.
 +
 +
I’ve used bendy ply before but never to the extent of making it go round almost ninety degree curves where I wanted the cabin sides in one piece like the original.
 +
 +
 +
I’ve steamed a lot of Oak and Ash in another life making furniture but that was always long but small section timber like 45mm x 120mm, quite small enough to go in a steam box. An eight by four sheet of ply would be a different scale altogether.
 +
So I set about trialling localised steam application (LSA) using a wallpaper steamer. They produce copious amounts of steam but are a bit too localised. Not only would one have to walk up and down the ply but the pad would heat too big an area. What was need was something that would steam the whole length of ply but only in the place needing bending.
 +
 +
Plastic pipe with holes all along seemed the solution and was trialled on a small rectangle of the 5mm bendy ply. The ply without steam has a minimum radius of 320mm, what was needed was effectively a radius of 50mm.
 +
 +
 +
Three short pieces of pipe joined with a Y piece to the steamer outlet pipe. The longer two pipes having holes one inch apart all the way along and a bung in the end to force the steam out of the holes.
 +
 +
The two pipes I placed either side of the ply, covered it all in the best quality T towels and steamed for ten minutes.
 +
 +
When ready place in the trusty workmate and try bending!
 +
 +
 +
The piece pushed over easily and was clamped down round and old piece of kitchen worktop nosing.
 +
 +
When dry the ply set in it’s new shape with easily enough bend to go round the bottom of the cabin sides with no cracking or splintering.
 +
 +
 +
So how to measure?
 +
 +
The decision about how many pieces of ply to use was ultimately made by the dimensions of the cabin.
 +
 +
Length was no problem but the sides from under the turn to the middle of the cabin roof was more than a sheet wide and fitting a huge bit of wobbly ply in only two bits didn’t appeal anyway.
 +
 +
So each side was measured and the ply cut and marked where the bend would come when steamed up.
 +
 +
The workmate had been OK on a small length but we needed nearly eight feet of bending so set about fashioning two 4x3’s, one for each side of the ply. The bend line level with the top.
 +
 +
 +
Two long pipes replaced the test ones and looked too long for one steamer so a borrowed one connected to the other end of the pipes so steam could blow down from both ends.
 +
 +
 +
The holes in the pipes pointed toward the ply from both sides and were held in place by lightly held ‘G’ cramps and the whole lot covered in towels to contain heat of the steam and try to prevent water staining from steam running down the ply.
 +
 +
 +
Twenty minutes steaming and the ply felt ready to bend, we used an old bit of skirting the right length to put even pressure on the bend line.
 +
 +
Once both side were bent they were taken to the boat to fit.
 +
 +
Lots of planing later and having to increase the gap between the cupboard tops and the hull the first side went in.
 +
 +
Followed by the second.
 +
 +
The next stage: Where do the window holes go?
 +
 +
We made paper templates the same size and shape as the bent ply, taped them up against the windows and pressure marked the window positions,  basically where the glass is as decided to make window frames to cover the aluminium windows and seal the ply agains the frames using rubber self adhesive foam strip and screws into the inner frame of each window; holding on the side panel and frames in one go.
 +
All the ply was insulated with anti damp, graphite backed foam after being coated in epoxy to strengthen, waterproof and help hold its shape.
 +
 +
 +
And the windows cut out.
 +
 +
 +
 +
Once the side were up, the cabin roof was sketched out, measured and cut to size.
 +
Then more bending trimming and fitting.
 +
 +
 +
Added holes for the downlighters and cutout for the hatch opening.
 +
 +
I opted for invisible fixings made by Big Hat, called “Poppets” These are a two part push fit, one glued to the substrate to be held up the other to the ceiling, they are all glued in place after only needing to scrape a small area for the epoxy to bond. Then clipped together and covered in epoxy and the ceiling panels pushed up against the plastic part of the poppet, so no lining up.
 +
 +
Note the Utile covering board between the side panel and ceiling.
 +
 +
The outer edge of the ply is dropped into a groove in the covering board. This holds the top edge of the side panel and the outer edge of the ceiling panel and covers the join.
 +
 +
The gaps the Poppets create (5mm) allows for the insulation and a small air gap which keeps the cabin cool in hot and warm in cold weather.
 +
 +
In hindsight I should have used more Poppets.
 +
 +
The panels were wedge up against the fixings using pine 2x1 poles.
 +
 +
Covering strips being added along with a centre covering held up with more “Poppets” and a hand carved piece where the compound curve made life too interesting.
 +
 +
All in all headroom is only reduced by around 12mm which is still standing headroom in my case (5’ 10 1/2”) and it’s a job that unless the boat sinks (and then it doesn’t matter) will never need doing again.
 +
 +
If required it could be changed with a coat of paint.

Revision as of 08:41, 11 August 2020

Proposal for Contents Lists

Guiding principles for Pages:

  1. Always make a page if you want a page, don't wait until there is a good structure to hang it on
  2. Every page should (ideally) be reachable by browsing from the main page in 4 clicks or less
  3. If the structure starts looking messy, change it (with consultation), don't wait for major clean-ups.
  4. Try not to make too many levels. Only include a heading or page when there's is something in it. Empty pages are very frustrating.
Yes, like it. DJJ 10:38, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

By the way - I like "other" better than "Misc" but I think we are getting a bit messy on the front page. "Westerly Yachts" seems a strange heading for something about the company and is confusing compared to "Westerly Classes". I'll have a think. Julian 09:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC)


At the article level sections could be:

1 to n article specific sections. For example very generally before, during and after sections.
Resources Section – containing web links to suppliers of materials or services
References Section – containing cross reference to WOA Journal issues and Magazine articles

This should generate a table of contents if the article structure demands it.

See examples of both above set up under Centaur

Going Live

New Sections

Added a header to collect material about lif in the Westerly Yard - "Westerly Yard Scrapbook". Subject was suggested to me by a Boatline member. Could provide some fascinating glimpses of the Westerly Yard and maybe some unique pictures.

Also suggest we add a template for a picture gallery so we can collect and display more pictures about each class. DJJ 14:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Headlining Westerly Pageant

So here we were with the headlining hanging round our ears on my Westerly Pageant.

This is normal on a boat I’m told especially a fifty year old Westerly that has never been refurbished.

Headlining in the front cabin had already been removed and revealed the ceiling to be a dirty brown mess of old glue and the lumps and bumps of the fibreglass woven inner skin and various bolts holding on chain plates and the like.

Knowing what was coming when the saloon cabin lining was removed and not wanting to spend hours scraping and sanding old glue (unless the boat could be turned upside down so I worked on what would effectively be the floor) the thinking cap went on.

After removal of the old lining which shed amazing amounts of black powdery ex-foam that had lost adhesion to the vinyl lining causing the ceiling covering to give way. (Mask alert!) The shape of the cabin roof turned out to be not too complicated. True there are two areas where compound curves make life difficult but over all I could see that with a suitably bendy wood, the interior could be transformed into a cosy space which could include downlighters and space for hidden wiring.

I’ve used bendy ply before but never to the extent of making it go round almost ninety degree curves where I wanted the cabin sides in one piece like the original.


I’ve steamed a lot of Oak and Ash in another life making furniture but that was always long but small section timber like 45mm x 120mm, quite small enough to go in a steam box. An eight by four sheet of ply would be a different scale altogether. So I set about trialling localised steam application (LSA) using a wallpaper steamer. They produce copious amounts of steam but are a bit too localised. Not only would one have to walk up and down the ply but the pad would heat too big an area. What was need was something that would steam the whole length of ply but only in the place needing bending.

Plastic pipe with holes all along seemed the solution and was trialled on a small rectangle of the 5mm bendy ply. The ply without steam has a minimum radius of 320mm, what was needed was effectively a radius of 50mm.


Three short pieces of pipe joined with a Y piece to the steamer outlet pipe. The longer two pipes having holes one inch apart all the way along and a bung in the end to force the steam out of the holes.

The two pipes I placed either side of the ply, covered it all in the best quality T towels and steamed for ten minutes.

When ready place in the trusty workmate and try bending!


The piece pushed over easily and was clamped down round and old piece of kitchen worktop nosing.

When dry the ply set in it’s new shape with easily enough bend to go round the bottom of the cabin sides with no cracking or splintering.


So how to measure?

The decision about how many pieces of ply to use was ultimately made by the dimensions of the cabin.

Length was no problem but the sides from under the turn to the middle of the cabin roof was more than a sheet wide and fitting a huge bit of wobbly ply in only two bits didn’t appeal anyway.

So each side was measured and the ply cut and marked where the bend would come when steamed up.

The workmate had been OK on a small length but we needed nearly eight feet of bending so set about fashioning two 4x3’s, one for each side of the ply. The bend line level with the top.


Two long pipes replaced the test ones and looked too long for one steamer so a borrowed one connected to the other end of the pipes so steam could blow down from both ends.


The holes in the pipes pointed toward the ply from both sides and were held in place by lightly held ‘G’ cramps and the whole lot covered in towels to contain heat of the steam and try to prevent water staining from steam running down the ply.


Twenty minutes steaming and the ply felt ready to bend, we used an old bit of skirting the right length to put even pressure on the bend line.

Once both side were bent they were taken to the boat to fit.

Lots of planing later and having to increase the gap between the cupboard tops and the hull the first side went in.

Followed by the second.

The next stage: Where do the window holes go?

We made paper templates the same size and shape as the bent ply, taped them up against the windows and pressure marked the window positions, basically where the glass is as decided to make window frames to cover the aluminium windows and seal the ply agains the frames using rubber self adhesive foam strip and screws into the inner frame of each window; holding on the side panel and frames in one go. All the ply was insulated with anti damp, graphite backed foam after being coated in epoxy to strengthen, waterproof and help hold its shape.


And the windows cut out.


Once the side were up, the cabin roof was sketched out, measured and cut to size. Then more bending trimming and fitting.


Added holes for the downlighters and cutout for the hatch opening.

I opted for invisible fixings made by Big Hat, called “Poppets” These are a two part push fit, one glued to the substrate to be held up the other to the ceiling, they are all glued in place after only needing to scrape a small area for the epoxy to bond. Then clipped together and covered in epoxy and the ceiling panels pushed up against the plastic part of the poppet, so no lining up.

Note the Utile covering board between the side panel and ceiling.

The outer edge of the ply is dropped into a groove in the covering board. This holds the top edge of the side panel and the outer edge of the ceiling panel and covers the join.

The gaps the Poppets create (5mm) allows for the insulation and a small air gap which keeps the cabin cool in hot and warm in cold weather.

In hindsight I should have used more Poppets.

The panels were wedge up against the fixings using pine 2x1 poles.

Covering strips being added along with a centre covering held up with more “Poppets” and a hand carved piece where the compound curve made life too interesting.

All in all headroom is only reduced by around 12mm which is still standing headroom in my case (5’ 10 1/2”) and it’s a job that unless the boat sinks (and then it doesn’t matter) will never need doing again.

If required it could be changed with a coat of paint.