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| − | Hi All,
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| − | Perhaps we should have a discussion about some standard layouts/data for the various topics? Then we'll end up with a house style consistent (hopefully) across the wiki.....[NB]
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| − | Help here for uploading images: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Managing_files [NB]
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| − | Comprehensive Table help here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Tables [NB]
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| − | :Links moved from Main Page
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| − | * [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuration_settings Configuration settings list]
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| − | * [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:FAQ MediaWiki FAQ]
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| − | * [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce MediaWiki release mailing list]
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| − | :--[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 07:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | With regard to the Statistics table I think it would be best to fit as many columns across the page as we can. Otherwise it's going to push the rest of the content off the screen and force people to scroll down. It would probably also be good to do some Zebra striping on the table but we'll need the stylesheets in place to do this....[NB]
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| − | :Added Windrush to table. Are there any more? [DJJ]
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| − | Need Yanmar and Volvo pages expanding - volunteers? [DJJ]
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| − | I've come to the conclusion that we need a better list of classes than just alphabetical. Probably organised by length with some annotation for Centre Cockpit, Ketch etc, etc.....[NB]
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| − | Yes would work but think less than 25 ft should be less than 26 feet because Centaur is really in this league. [DJJ]
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| − | David - what do you want CSS for? its probably better to use wiki markup and keep things simple unless you have something specific in mind but I see the CSS extension is installed and the instructions are [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CSS here] [[User:Julian|Julian]] 21:54, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | :Nigel suggested we use CSS. Must say so far defaults seem ok [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 02:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | With regard to CSS I'm thinking about the stats tables and perhaps doing some zebra striping; cleaner with CSS. If want to change the look of the thing we can do it globally via the CSS rather than having to rework each page. [[User:Birchn|Birchn]] 07:44, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | == suggestions for pages ==
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| − | Bob said to me "I think that a short piece on Robinetta could be appropriate to the wiki in an historical context as it reflects the evolution of Rayner's thinking leading to the creation of Westerly." How about a page called "Before Westerly" that covers Robinetta, the Corvette and Westcoaster? We need to come up with a structure for the front page that allows this, and other historical pages to be linked. [[User:Julian|Julian]] 22:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | :I have revised the contents list following the WOA Forum topics but providing separate pages for items such as Deck, Sails and Rigging because I think a Wiki will have more long term content in each area than a forum where the postings at any given time can share an area. Also added a Before, During and After Westerly Section under Miscellaneous Topics.
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| − | --[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 08:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | Does anyone know how to create a Contents Page. I think we should have one at the beginning of each model chapter - like the Centaur has. I've no idea how to create it! [[User:Vegable|Vegable]] 18:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | : Table of contents gets generated automatically when there are at least four Leve2 sections. See Proposal for Contents Lists below.
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| − | [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 05:26, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | ==Guidance for New Contributions ==
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| − | Contributors should endeavour to review the best avilable information on a topic and submit a digest of that information to the Wiki. Prime sources of information will include personal experience (preferred), magazines, the WOA Web site and discussion groups such as WOA and Yahoo. Material should not be lifted verbatim rather a digested version should be presented in the Wiki. There are generally several alternatives approaches or opinions about any task and Wiki contributors should endeavour to identify these alternatives and provide hooks (follow on pages)to the alternatives even if the information is not available to the original contributor. Someone else can later add that information. Reprints of chatty PBO type articles are not recommended because this is not Wiki style and the "How I did it" article which is suitable for a magazine is generally just one view and the Wiki needs to recognise alternates.
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| − | --[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 08:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | I would caution us from thinking too "because this is not Wiki style". Just because we have a wiki, and just because its mediawiki doesn't mean we have to be like Wikipedia. David's guidance is good, but we don't really know our audience yet and all sorts of things might end up being of interest. I'd prefer we avoid trying to have too strong an editorial interest in '''what kind of contribution''' is appropriate. My personal feeling is we should avoid copying things available elsewhere, but introduce other resources and link to them. Its really great WOA is hosting this and not making it members only, so lets link to members only resources in a welcoming way and promote WOA, and lets link to other resources too. [[User:Julian|Julian]] 07:38, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | :Perhaps I pushed that point too strongly. I was really trying to reinforce the don't copy message which I agree is not the same thing as use Wiki style. I would probably write Wikipedia style but I agree others may contribute effectively in a more chatty way. Hopefully not too chatty though :)
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| − | --[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 17:15, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
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| | ==Proposal for Contents Lists== | | ==Proposal for Contents Lists== |
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| − | Either:
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| − | 1)Set Up Standard Level 2 Headline sections on the Class pages now as :
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| − | Xxxxx Statistics
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| − | Table as now. Incidentally do people prefer vertical table (as most) or flatter tables as Konsort which save height on the Class page?
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| − | Assuming we have sections on the class pages I think I am happy with the vertical tables especially if we add a picture alongside of an example of the class.
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| − | Xxxxx Story
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| − | Standard WOA site link
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| − | Xxxxx Maintenance and Repair
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| − | This in turn is eventually split down by the 8 boat areas from the Main Page Topics
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| − | Viz Cabin Fittings and Installation; Deck and Cockpit; Engines; Hull, Keels and Rudder; Instruments and Electrics; Mast Rigging and Sails; Moorings and Anchors; Transmission and Propellers.
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| − | Xxxxx Upgrades and Enhancements
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| − | Makes the subtle distinction between Maintenance and upgrades which are totally new fittings. So here could go adding a fridge, adding a cockpit tent or a fixed windscreen. Contents list will probably develop adhoc.
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| − | Xxxxx Other Topics
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| − | This could allow for history or even logs of trips if people want that?
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| − | Or
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| − | 2) We could just add articles as they come on the basis that you don't need a table of contents if there's not much there and then at some point do a sort. I am conscious of the fact that if we have too many empty pages people will get fed up clicking to an empty page.
| + | Guiding principles for Pages: |
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| − | How about some guiding principles:
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| | # Always make a page if you want a page, don't wait until there is a good structure to hang it on | | # Always make a page if you want a page, don't wait until there is a good structure to hang it on |
| | # Every page should (ideally) be reachable by browsing from the main page in 4 clicks or less | | # Every page should (ideally) be reachable by browsing from the main page in 4 clicks or less |
| | # If the structure starts looking messy, change it (with consultation), don't wait for major clean-ups. | | # If the structure starts looking messy, change it (with consultation), don't wait for major clean-ups. |
| | + | # Try not to make too many levels. Only include a heading or page when there's is something in it. Empty pages are very frustrating. |
| | :Yes, like it. [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 10:38, 25 November 2011 (UTC) | | :Yes, like it. [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 10:38, 25 November 2011 (UTC) |
| | By the way - I like "other" better than "Misc" but I think we are getting a bit messy on the front page. "Westerly Yachts" seems a strange heading for something about the company and is confusing compared to "Westerly Classes". I'll have a think. [[User:Julian|Julian]] 09:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC) | | By the way - I like "other" better than "Misc" but I think we are getting a bit messy on the front page. "Westerly Yachts" seems a strange heading for something about the company and is confusing compared to "Westerly Classes". I'll have a think. [[User:Julian|Julian]] 09:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | I tried another format for the classes table - change it back if you don't like it. [[User:Julian|Julian]] 09:36, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | :Speaking as a newby with no previous knowledge of things Wiki, I'd prefer the first format so that you have something to follow and an immediately recognizable place where you can make your contribution. [[User:Vegable|Vegable]] 09:44, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | : Me too but will leave it for a bit to see what Nigel thinks.[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 10:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | : Sorry couldn't stand it so reverted it then added Julian's cleaner table format which I like.
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| − | Ah! I was referring to the proposals to the contents list, not the format of the classes tables! I do prefer the Centaur table and photo. I don't like the table layout in the Konsort page though. Personally I think a vertical table is easier to read. [[User:Vegable|Vegable]] 11:14, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| | ===At the article level sections could be:=== | | ===At the article level sections could be:=== |
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| | See examples of both above set up under Centaur | | See examples of both above set up under Centaur |
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| − | [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 05:20, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | The Centaur page looks great - we need a nicer table style though [[User:Julian|Julian]] 09:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | Had a look at tables -
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| − | style="border-collapse: collapse; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: #000"
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| − | seems simple to use and quite nice. Does the CSS add-in allow us to name it and use it by name? [[User:Julian|Julian]] 09:36, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | I've tried to get the CSS extension to work but no joy chasing up with Tim [[User:Birchn|Birchn]] 12:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | == Some Serious Thought Is Needed ==
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| − | Most of the future contributors are going to be like me i.e. wiki illiterate. I've just tried to download a picture of a Typhoon. Been able by looking at how the Centaurs was done to put it in the Typhoon Statistics table but it's massive. No where can I find information how to resize it to a sensible/suitable size.
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| − | Secondly, I've just tried to enter details similar to the Centaur Page into the Renown Page. How on earth do you put in extra headings. Nowhere is it clear, clicking onto the Centaur page gives no indication, and clicking onto the FAQs takes you into techno-babble.
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| − | Unless the pages are all complete before we go "live" people are going to try and contribute, find they can't make a start, get p*****d off like I am at the moment and they will give up and the project will die.
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| − | There has to be laid out very plainly and very simply a simple set of instructions on how to contribute. Especially so in the early stages. [[User:Vegable|Vegable]] 16:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | Level 2 headlines can be inserted by clicking the big A button at the top of the edit box. But actually its just the surrounding equals signs that make the difference
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| − | Picture sizing is a bit harder. Might be an idea to suggest its put in any way the person can manage it. Then someone else can fettle it. I'm happy to help. Hopefully the Before Westerly page is simple enough to help you. If you edit that, you will see headings and a re-sized image [[User:Julian|Julian]] 21:31, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | I followed the link to the FAQ and agree - its not the right start point for users. I've replaced it with direct links to what I hope are the most useful user help pages. These are the ones I use to remind me how to format text, etc. Hope you all approve [[User:Julian|Julian]] 23:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | :Mikes problem was that he did not appreciate that editing was done in a separate section. This isn't clear yet. Maybe need to explain it right at the top. Also think we still need the overall FAQ link as a general starting link.
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| − | :[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 14:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
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| | == Going Live == | | == Going Live == |
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| − | Not my place, but I really think the wiki is pretty ready to go live. What do folks think?
| + | New Sections |
| − | :Would like to complete the Class links first and add pictures to as many Classes as possible. We have permission to use the WOA site pictures and have asked Tim how we should access them. Think we will have to upload the ones we use. Will also invite more helpers in the hope that we get more content. The Class pages is pretty empty at the moment.
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| − | :[[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 10:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
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| − | It seems to me that 'Upgrades and Enhancements' and winterising are both maintenance topics. How about we change the front page a little to:
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| − | * Maintenance and Repair (or possibly 'Help with your Westerly') as a level 2 heading (but not a link)
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| − | ** Maintenance and repair topics
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| − | ** Upgrades and enhancements
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| − | ** Winterising
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| − | Then the "join" and the book links could be moved to the useful resources section and the 'before westerly' page could be linked to by some text in the westerly marine section. I think this would be simpler and cleaner. Thoughts ? [[User:Julian|Julian]] 23:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
| + | Added a header to collect material about lif in the Westerly Yard - "Westerly Yard Scrapbook". Subject was suggested to me by a Boatline member. |
| − | :Yes I think that would work. Lets give it a try. [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 10:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
| + | Could provide some fascinating glimpses of the Westerly Yard and maybe some unique pictures. |
| − | :Using "Looking After Your Westerly" as the ttop level section head.
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| − | I see no harm in making it live. What do we think about annotating the classes page with Fin and Rig Configuration so people can be guided directly to the boats that might interest them? Also maybe we should clean up this page periodically I can't see the wood for the trees! [[User:Birchn|Birchn]] 12:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
| + | Also suggest we add a template for a picture gallery so we can collect and display more pictures about each class. |
| | + | [[User:Flora1871|DJJ]] 14:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC) |
